John Mackey is one of the most electrifyingly alive business leaders I’ve ever met. You know him as the co-founder of Whole Foods, which sold to Amazon for $13.7 billion dollars. He is also the author of Conscious Capitalism, Conscious Leadership and The Whole Story, he’s spent his life reimagining what leadership looks like when it's rooted in the heart.
This conversation isn’t just about business. It’s about how we see ourselves, how we treat each other, and how we open to something deeper beneath the surface of success.
Bonus points: I felt like I had a mini spiritual awakening at one point in the middle of the interview and started to cry. That’s one way to know you’re having a great conversation!
“Love is the ultimate win win win strategy. Just love everyone. All the time. No exceptions.”
Listen to What’s The Big Idea on your preferred platform below:
Why This Episode Matters
We live in a world that often runs on win-lose. John is here to show us what becomes possible when we choose win win win instead.
At its core, this is a practice and ehtical framework. One where you look for outcomes that are good for you, good for the other person, and good for the collective. Not just in theory, but in the day-to-day conversations, decisions, and conflicts that define who we are.
A Few Highlights
- John's spiritual awakening at 22 that shifted his entire path
- Why most people are still trapped in the win-lose game
- How to lead from your heart without getting taken advantage of
- What it actually looks like to love in business
- Why creativity, empathy, and presence are non-negotiables for conscious leadership
The 3 Core Shifts of Win Win Win
1. The Mind Shift
You start by becoming aware. Notice the judgment. Catch the fear. Choose again. Ask: *What would a win win win look like right now?*
2. The Heart Shift
Open. Soften. Let your defenses drop. Listen fully. People feel the difference when you meet them with compassion instead of control.
3. The Creative Shift
Get playful. Let go of the false belief that trade-offs are the only way. Give your mind permission to look for something better. Ask different questions and the answers will surprise you.
“Creativity is endless. If you trust it, if you keep asking, the win win win will show up.”
Favorite Moments
- John reliving his first spiritual awakening through psychedelics
- His spontaneous street encounter with his existentialist professor
- Deborah’s reminder that cut through everything: “Just love everyone. All the time. No exceptions.”
- Our shared tears as we touched something real underneath it all
Resources We Mentioned
- The Whole Story by John Mackey
- The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt
- Playstorming by Daniela Plattner
Connect with John
Website: https://johnpmackey.com
Books:The Whole Story, Conscious Capitalism, Conscious Leadership
Twitter:@iamjohnmackey
Instagram:@iamjohnmackey
If this episode touched you, share it with someone you care about. It’s how this movement spreads.
Thanks for listening. Let’s keep building a world where we all get to win.
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